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 Monsters from 3.5 that didn't make the cut to 4.0

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PostSubject: Monsters from 3.5 that didn't make the cut to 4.0   Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:18 am

Courtesy of Rakhamon on Maxminis:

Creatures with a * after their name have had one or more miniatures made of them.

Creatures from Monster Manual 3.5 not in Monster Manual 4.0

Achaierai *
Allip
Angels - Planetar, Astral Deva, Solar *
Animated Objects (all)
Ankheg *
Aranea
Archons - Lantern, Hound, Trumpet *
Arrowhawk (all)
Assassin Vine
Athach
Barghest (all) *
Beholder, Gauth *
Belker
Blink Dog
Celestial (Template)
Centaur *
Chaos Beast *
Cloaker
Cockatrice
Couatl *
Darkmantle *
Delver
Demon - Babau *
Demon - Bebilith
Demon - Dretch *
Demon - Nalfeshnee
Demon - Quasit *
Demon - Retriever
Derro *
Devil - Barbed/Hamatula *
Devil - Hellcat *
Devil - Horned/Cornugon *
Devil - Lemure *
Digester *
Dinosaurs (All)
Dire Ape *
Dire Badger *
Dire Bat *
Dire Lion *
Dire Wolverine *
Dragon - All metallic dragons *
Dragon turtle
Dragonne *
Dwarf - Duergar *
Eagle, Giant *
Elementals (All, the new ones are very different critters) *
Ethereal Filcher *
Ethereal Marauder *
Fiendish (Template)
Formians (all) *
Frost Worm
Fungus - Violet
Fungus - Shrieker
Genie - Djinni *
Genie - Janni
Ghoul, Ghast *
Giant - Cloud *
Giant - Frost *
Giant - Stone *
Girallon *
Golem - Clay *
Golem - Iron *
Gray Render*
Guardinal - Avoral
Guardinal - Leonal
Hag - Green
Hag - Annis
Hag - Sea
Half-celestial (Template)
Half-Dragon (Template)
Half-fiend (Template)
Howler *
Inevitable - Kolyarut *
Inevitable - Zelekhut
Invisible Stalker
Kraken
Krenshar *
Lammasu/Golden Protector *
Lillend *
Locatah
Lycanthrope - Werebear *
Lycanthrope - Wereboar *
Lycanthrope - Weretiger *
Magmin *
Mephits (all) *
Merfolk
Mimic
Mohrg
Naga - Spirit
Naga - Water
Nightshade - Nightcrawler
Nightshade - Nightwing
Nymph
Ooze - Black Pudding
Ooze - Gray Ooze
Owl, Giant *
Pegasus *
Phantom Fungus
Phase Spider
Phasm
Planetouched, Aasimar *
Rast
Ravid
Remorhaz
Rust Monster
Sea Lion
Shadow (all) *
Shocker Lizard
Skum
Slaad - Death *
Sphinx - Gynosphinx
Sphinx - Criosphinx
Sphinx - Hieracosphinx
Spider-eater
Sprite - Grig
Sprite - Nixie
Sprite - Pixie
Swarm (all except rat swarm) *
Tendriculous
Thoqua
Tojanida
Triton
Vargouille *
Will--wisp
Winter Wolf *
Xill *
Xorn *
Yeth Hound
Yrthak

Animals (Everything except Horses, Hyena and Wolf)
Vermin (Everything)
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PostSubject: Re: Monsters from 3.5 that didn't make the cut to 4.0   Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:39 pm

Holy damn! I knew there where going to be some taken out, but damn! Half the monsters are gone!

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PostSubject: Re: Monsters from 3.5 that didn't make the cut to 4.0   Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:38 pm

Gone? I doubt they're gone.

Moved to the MM 2, MM 3, MM 4, MM 5, etc. is more likely. If the rumors are true, WotC are unhappy with the sales performance of the latter MMs, and so figure that the best way to ensure sales is to hold certain monsters until later editions. That way the gamers will keep blindly buying.

I'm all for the company making money, but unless they're giving good value for the money they shouldn't expect to be able to make enless MMs...It's just not [s]realistic[/s]...errr...practical.

If I were still in, which I'm not--so my opinion is worth almost what you're paying to receive it, I would rather see expanded information (fluff and crunch) on staple creatures (and fewer yrthaks or dragonspawns) and have those monsters spread out over more editions. In other words, good monsters spread out=tolerable: bad monsters shoe-horned in to keep good monsters until later books=bad.

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PostSubject: Re: Monsters from 3.5 that didn't make the cut to 4.0   Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:21 am

Even if they are included in later Monster Manuals, it just seems wrong to me that a lot of iconic D&D monsters weren't in the first MM. Especially (very very confused as to why they'd not include the bolded ones):

Ankheg *
Cloaker
Cockatrice
Derro *
Dire Ape *
Dire Badger *
Dire Bat *
Dire Lion *
Dire Wolverine *

Dragon - All metallic dragons *
Dragon turtle
Dwarf - Duergar *
Fungus - Violet
Fungus - Shrieker
Ghoul, Ghast *
Giant - Cloud *
Giant - Frost *
Giant - Stone *
Golem - Clay *
Golem - Iron *

Lycanthrope - Werebear *
Lycanthrope - Wereboar *
Lycanthrope - Weretiger *
Mephits (all) *
Mimic
Ooze - Black Pudding
Ooze - Gray Ooze
Pegasus *
Remorhaz
Rust Monster
Shadow (all) *
Will--wisp
Winter Wolf *
Xorn *
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PostSubject: Re: Monsters from 3.5 that didn't make the cut to 4.0   Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:16 pm

Ya since they are tying DDM and D&D together.

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PostSubject: Re: Monsters from 3.5 that didn't make the cut to 4.0   Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:33 am

Shottglazz wrote:
Even if they are included in later Monster Manuals, it just seems wrong to me that a lot of iconic D&D monsters weren't in the first MM. Especially (very very confused as to why they'd not include the bolded ones):
Actually, you answer your own query...the reason to put off those creatures is because they are so iconic (or maybe that's the Cuervo an dBailey's talking...) and desirable.

Seriously. If you really, really really want information on "Subject X" you'll buy it...almost no matter what else is included in the volume.

(Bailey, you are a harsh master...)

Look at it this way: if the MM I contains about half of what we normally expect, we'll pretty happily shell out hte cash for ti. I mean, how many purchases nowadays are ayou actually saying "I got my money's worht out of that!"? i'd wager that there are precious few! In most cases, we're settling with ourselves, saying I got about 1/2 or 2/3 of what i really wanted; I'm good."

Buit, if WotC can acclimate their market to an increased rate of diminished returns, then they'll be able to put out a MM 1 with about 1/2 of what we would norma.lly accept, a MM 2 with about 1/2 of what we would have accepted from the MM 1, and an Mm 3 with about half of what we would accept from the MM 2. Naturally, this wont' work indefinitely, but we should be godo for a few MM a piece...

The die-hards will continue to purchase until all of their choices for the "real" MM 1 are obtained, and hopefully they'll be conditiioned to keep purchaseing beyond that point...irrespective of the lvel of actual return they recieave.

And, believe it or not, I'm not particulary paranoid at this point of intoxication, just doubting in my faith in humanity. When i'm depressedn an paranoid I'm actually worse/.

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PostSubject: Re: Monsters from 3.5 that didn't make the cut to 4.0   Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:04 am

Ok the parts that I was able to understand (No coffee yet) You have some good points Pinky. You are right why would WOTC but all the favs in one book.

So now back to reading your post to understand it more.

And who is Bailey?

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PostSubject: Re: Monsters from 3.5 that didn't make the cut to 4.0   Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:19 pm

Bailey's Irish Creme Whiskey.

I'm not normally a whiskey-drinker (it does bad things to my personality--but Bailey's doesn't do that for whatever reason), but the bottle of Cuervo Margarita doesn't last as long as I might like. So I had to make do with what was in the house.

Drunk-posting. It's like drunk-dialing except that while it's not as embarrassing the shame lasts longer as everyone gets to see...

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PostSubject: Re: Monsters from 3.5 that didn't make the cut to 4.0   Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:07 pm

Oh yes that Baileys, I have enjoyed his company a time or two hundred!

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PostSubject: Re: Monsters from 3.5 that didn't make the cut to 4.0   Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:21 am

I'll add a little "bailey's" posting (though, it was ancient age and pabst), and put in my 2 cents. I'm fine with what they left out.

Ankhegs are great, but not *necessary* in so much as a goblin would be, or even an owlbear (yes, owlbears are necessary to D&D, nearly as much as dice). I think they covered a decent group of monsters, at least enough to where you don't have to buy the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. book if you don't really feel like it (index cards at Barnes and Noble ftw!), and giants are my favorite monster type.

I can't say for certain, as I've only flipped through the MM for a few at the FLGS, and the list posted by the OP. However, from what I've seen, I could run what I prefer out of the 1st MM.

I could be wrong, as I'm no expert *at all* on 4E. But, that's what I gathered from it thus far.
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